During our training workshops and during supervision with other therapists we often get asked a lot of the same questions. We will begin looking at these questions in our blog/news posts over the next several months. Here is the first one: "How do you respond when you’re going through the Oral History Interview and there isn’t much positive affect? How much do you validate or speak back that this is really troubling for you?"
When I am listening to a couples story and it is obvious that their current level of negative sentiment override is colouring their history in a very negative way I usually try a knid of hypothetical question to see if I can get some positive traction. Here is a section of a transcript taken from an oral history interview I did with a couple 3 years ago.
Therapist: So, how long have you been together?
Tanya: We first ran into each other in at my work. He came to deliver some documents to my boss. He was quite rude about it actually.
Scott: (Aggressively) I wasn’t rude! I was just trying to do my job and you were being obstructional.
Tanya: Whatever! (Looking at the therapist) You can see how rude he is.
Scott: Oh, good one, tell the therapist on me why don’t you.
Therapist: So it seems like the conflict and difficulties you have had recently make it difficult for you to kind of put down your antipathy towards each other. I wonder if you could put yourselves back in time, before you know what you know now, what might you have been thinking about each other then?
Tanya: That’s hard.
Scott: No it’s not. I remember thinking she was cute and trying to be all assertive and everything. I actually liked the fact that she was trying to protect her boss. I also knew I wasn’t going to let her get around me no matter how cute she was (grinning)
Therapist: So you thought she was cute?
Scott: Yes, she had on this blue power suit outfit and these really high heeled shoes, I remember noticing her legs, they were outstanding (glancing at Tanya’s legs). They’re still outstanding, she really takes care of herself.
Tanya: (Looking a little shy) You’ve always admired my legs. I thought he looked handsome, he had on a pin striped suit and his hair was longer on top and kept falling into his face, but he still acted like a prick.
Therapist: A very handsome one though from the sounds of things (smiling). So how did this meeting end up in a date?
Tanya: Well a few days later, I guess it was the Friday night, I went with some people from work for drinks. I hadn’t gone before, I was a lot shyer in those days, but we went to this hotel near the office where they always used to go and Scott was there with his work people too.
Scott: I saw her the moment she walked in, you just can’t miss those legs. (Tanya rolls her eyes, Scott smiles impishly at her). I saw every man in the place turn to look at them as she walked by and I knew I better get in fast.
Tanya: Oh come on Scott, it wasn’t like that.
Scott: It so definitely was. You never reckon men are looking at you but they always do. I see it, I know what they are thinking, that’s why I have to always look after you, you just don’t know the effect you have on men and how they will take advantage of you.
Tanya: That’s ridiculous, you do that because you just don’t trust me and it’s so offensive!
Therapist: This sounds like an area of conflict that you have encountered before.
Tanya: It’s constant, he’s just such an ..
Therapist: (Interrupts) It’s an area of conflict that is constant in your relationship, so it’s definitely something we will have to address and I can certainly tell you that I have some ideas already for how I can help you with that. So after meeting at the hotel that night did you go out on a date?
Scott: Well we had a few drinks there and then I asked her if she would like to come to dinner with me. She was a bit shy about it but then I suggested that her friend and her friend’s boyfriend could come with us so she asked them and they all agreed.
Therapist: And how did that dinner go?
Tanya: It was actually really nice. Scott was an absolute gentleman and I remember my friend Debbie saying to me that he was a keeper just based on that night.
Therapist: Wow! That’s a big call. What do you think it was that made her say that?
Tanya: Well he was lovely, he opened the car door for both of us, held my chair, insisted on paying for dinner and didn’t pressure me for a kiss or anything at the end, just asked if he could call me.
Scott: I knew that she was shy and I didn’t want to scare her off, but I knew she was special and I wanted to take this further. I told my flatmate that night “I think I’ve found the one.”
Tanya: (Skeptically) Oh, you did not!
Scott: I sure did, you can ask him, he only reminded me about it last week when I told him we were coming here.
Tanya: You told him we were coming here?
Scott: Yeah, I think I wanted some feedback.
Tanya: What did he say?
Scott: Actually he said he thought it was a great idea. He said he thought we were a great couple and that it would be a shame if we didn’t make it and then he reminded me of what I’d said that night. It really got me thinking that I do want to make this work, that’s why I’ve been trying to be calmer this last week.
Tanya: I did notice you were trying harder.
Therapist: So it sounds like right at the start you both saw a lot of potential in this relationship and so did your friends, and even today your friend is very supportive of your relationship. That must feel good?
Tanya: I guess, I just can’t help feeling really angry and hurt all the time and I guess I just don’t think it will ever change.
Therapist: You are scared that the feelings you talked about earlier of being neglected and lonely will never change.
Tanya: Yeah, I just don’t think Scott really wants to be with me or with the kids, he just wants his single life, or at least the freedom we had before the kids came along.
(Silence)
Therapist: Scott?
Scott: I think it’s more complicated than that, I know I want something different to what we have now, but I don’t think that what I want doesn’t include you and the kids.
Therapist: So you both seem to be saying that what is happening in your lives right now isn’t meeting anyone’s needs and so things have to change in some way. I think I already have some ideas of how to make a few changes that could benefit you as a couple and as a family. But right now I’d really like to know how long did you date and what kinds of things did you do together then?
This excerpt demonstrates one way to keep the Oral History Interview on track while allowing the couple to also explore their current reality.
John Gottman has said that if you can’t break through their negativity in this interview then “...you haven’t found the key to unlock their storytelling…”. When their negativity is strong and is a result of Negative Sentiment Override then that in itself is important information, but don’t offer feedback at this stage, leave the feedback to the feedback/contracting session where it can be offered as part of the big picture of the issues within their relationship.